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Disentangling Guilt from Regret Date: 09/05/22
Time: 45 minutes 13 secs
Windy: So what’s your understanding of the purpose of our
conversation this afternoon?
Janet: So I attended the workshop you did a couple of weeks
ago on the single session for the treatment of regret.
And, as I understand it, you’re in the process of writing
a book and you would like material to use within the
book as an example, as case studies.
Windy: Transcripts of the sessions, yeah, for people who are
struggling with regret. Is that you?
Janet: Isn’t that everyone?
Windy: Édith Piaf? No.
Janet: True, yeah.
Windy: So why don’t you tell me what your struggle is at the
moment?
Janet: OK. So ... [pause] since agreeing to it obviously I’ve
thought a lot about it, and I thought which one of my
many regrets, things that I regret. And then I thought
about the future. It’s even about doing things now to
avoid regret in the future. But, anyway, the thing I
thought about I’d like to talk about most is regret at
divorcing my ex-husband many, many years and, as
time’s gone on, the regret is greater, I think.
194 Single-Session Therapy and Regret
Windy: OK. And what would you like to achieve from this
session?
Janet: ... Coming to terms with the decision. Actually, it’s
more than coming to terms with the decision. It’s, I
think, allowing myself to live with the consequences
of the decision more easily.
Windy: And, if you were living with the consequences of the
decision more easily, what would you be doing and
thinking and feeling?
[I am asking for Janet to clarify what would constitute
living with the consequences of her decision more
easily.]
Janet: I wouldn’t feel... guilt. It’s guilt particularly around
my son and daughter.
Windy: What would you feel instead about your son and
daughter?
Janet: ... I would feel that they had the best opportunities. ...
That they had the best chance of having happy lives, I
think.
Windy: Even if they hadn’t?
Janet: Yeah, even if they hadn’t.
Windy: So let’s see if we can untangle that lot, if we can.
[I am alerting Janet to our collective need to gain
clarity into what she is discussing and as a prelude I
invite her – below to put the issue into context.]
Janet: OK. Good luck.
Windy: OK. And what would you like to achieve from this
session?
Janet: ... Coming to terms with the decision. Actually, it’s
more than coming to terms with the decision. It’s, I
think, allowing myself to live with the consequences
of the decision more easily.
Windy: And, if you were living with the consequences of the
decision more easily, what would you be doing and
thinking and feeling?
[I am asking for Janet to clarify what would constitute
living with the consequences of her decision more
easily.]
Janet: I wouldn’t feel... guilt. It’s guilt particularly around
my son and daughter.
Windy: What would you feel instead about your son and
daughter?
Janet: ... I would feel that they had the best opportunities. ...
That they had the best chance of having happy lives, I
think.
Windy: Even if they hadn’t?
Janet: Yeah, even if they hadn’t.
Windy: So let’s see if we can untangle that lot, if we can.
[I am alerting Janet to our collective need to gain
clarity into what she is discussing and as a prelude I
invite her – below to put the issue into context.]
Janet: OK. Good luck.
Disentangling Guilt from Regret 195
Windy: So why don’t you give me a context about your
relationship, what went wrong briefly, the divorce and
what happened to you?
Janet: Initially, I would’ve said the regret is marrying my ex-
husband, but then I wouldn’t have my children. So
that’s not true. But I knew he wasn’t right.
Windy: At the time you knew he wasn’t right?
Janet: Yeah. It was difficult. You get into that situation.
Anyway, he has Asperger’s, so it wasn’t the easiest of
relationships. So he was completing his PhD when we
got married, so that’s all he did.
Windy: That’s all he did, was complete his PhD?
Janet: That’s all he did, yeah. We were doing our PhDs at
Exeter, and I loved being there and I wanted to stay.
So this was the first year after we got married. He got
a job in the West Midlands ... [pause] and expected
me – so we both moved to the West Midlands.
Windy: This is before you got married?
Janet: Just after we got married.
Windy: So you went to the West Midlands?
Janet: Yeah. Both got jobs within universities, and he was
very driven and focused, and I wasn’t. Anyway, so
then we had children: a son and then a couple of years
later a daughter. I was working, but I very much took
care of the children and brought them up, really. He
wasn’t very good with little ones particularly. So we
were ships that passed in the night sort of thing. It
wasn’t necessarily conflictual or rows or any ...
[pause] bad behaviour on anybody’s part. Then he
burnt out at work and got a job at another university in
Windy: So why don’t you give me a context about your
relationship, what went wrong briefly, the divorce and
what happened to you?
Janet: Initially, I would’ve said the regret is marrying my ex-
husband, but then I wouldn’t have my children. So
that’s not true. But I knew he wasn’t right.
Windy: At the time you knew he wasn’t right?
Janet: Yeah. It was difficult. You get into that situation.
Anyway, he has Asperger’s, so it wasn’t the easiest of
relationships. So he was completing his PhD when we
got married, so that’s all he did.
Windy: That’s all he did, was complete his PhD?
Janet: That’s all he did, yeah. We were doing our PhDs at
Exeter, and I loved being there and I wanted to stay.
So this was the first year after we got married. He got
a job in the West Midlands ... [pause] and expected
me – so we both moved to the West Midlands.
Windy: This is before you got married?
Janet: Just after we got married.
Windy: So you went to the West Midlands?
Janet: Yeah. Both got jobs within universities, and he was
very driven and focused, and I wasn’t. Anyway, so
then we had children: a son and then a couple of years
later a daughter. I was working, but I very much took
care of the children and brought them up, really. He
wasn’t very good with little ones particularly. So we
were ships that passed in the night sort of thing. It
wasn’t necessarily conflictual or rows or any ...
[pause] bad behaviour on anybody’s part. Then he
burnt out at work and got a job at another university in
196 Single-Session Therapy and Regret
Devon. So, again, he upped sticks. His view was,
‘Well, you never wanted to leave Devon, so why
would you not want to go back?’ The children were in
school, I had a job. So he went and used to come back
at weekends. It got more and more difficult as the
weeks and months. Then it just wasn’t working. ... So
then we separated.
Windy: Who initiated the separation?
Janet: Me.
Windy: So, at the time, how would you describe your state of
mind?
Janet: ... [Pause]
Windy: Prior to making the decision?
Janet: Prior to making the decision ... [pause] I thought I was
flat out, full on, trying to manage everything. I suppose
I’d say I didn’t really have time to think about what
my state of mind was, I suppose.
Windy: What led you to decide that, ‘This isn’t working, I
want to separate’?
Janet: Because, when he used to come home at weekends, the
weekends were really difficult, and it just felt really
uncomfortable. ... [Pause] It was just a terrible
atmosphere.
Windy: And how long did that go on for?
Janet: A couple of months, I think. I introduced the idea that
it wasn’t working. He didn’t accept it but he agreed
with it. ... But it was horrible. Yeah, it was really
horrible at first.
Devon. So, again, he upped sticks. His view was,
‘Well, you never wanted to leave Devon, so why
would you not want to go back?’ The children were in
school, I had a job. So he went and used to come back
at weekends. It got more and more difficult as the
weeks and months. Then it just wasn’t working. ... So
then we separated.
Windy: Who initiated the separation?
Janet: Me.
Windy: So, at the time, how would you describe your state of
mind?
Janet: ... [Pause]
Windy: Prior to making the decision?
Janet: Prior to making the decision ... [pause] I thought I was
flat out, full on, trying to manage everything. I suppose
I’d say I didn’t really have time to think about what
my state of mind was, I suppose.
Windy: What led you to decide that, ‘This isn’t working, I
want to separate’?
Janet: Because, when he used to come home at weekends, the
weekends were really difficult, and it just felt really
uncomfortable. ... [Pause] It was just a terrible
atmosphere.
Windy: And how long did that go on for?
Janet: A couple of months, I think. I introduced the idea that
it wasn’t working. He didn’t accept it but he agreed
with it. ... But it was horrible. Yeah, it was really
horrible at first.
Disentangling Guilt from Regret 197
Windy: What was horrible at first?
Janet: Well, he’d come back at weekends and he’d want me
to go and stay with a friend. He had the children every
other weekend.
Windy: This is after you separated, is it?
Janet: Yeah.
Windy: But prior to separation you weren’t happy, there was a
bad atmosphere in the house for a few months. You
introduced the idea of it not working. He kind of
agreed but he didn’t want to do anything about it. But
you then initiated the separation and, when that
happened, there was to-ing and fro-ing that was
difficult.
[Summarising statements like this pave the way for
greater focus]
Janet: Yeah. ... I suppose that took about six months to a year
to resolve. ... [Pause] And then years passed, and that
was 2004 ... so years ago. And ... [pause] he
remarried, and he’s happily married now. He’s very
happy and we get on very well now. ... And I call her
my ex-wife, ‘cos his new wife. She’s great and I really
get on with her, and it’s fine.
Windy: Are they a good match for one another?
Janet: Oh God, yeah, completely. Yeah, very.
Windy: And were you a good match for one another?
Janet: No, not at all. ... So I spoke to him last night and he’s
going on a 1200-mile bike ride around Brittany with a
tent. That’s the kind of thing he would do, and that’s
Windy: What was horrible at first?
Janet: Well, he’d come back at weekends and he’d want me
to go and stay with a friend. He had the children every
other weekend.
Windy: This is after you separated, is it?
Janet: Yeah.
Windy: But prior to separation you weren’t happy, there was a
bad atmosphere in the house for a few months. You
introduced the idea of it not working. He kind of
agreed but he didn’t want to do anything about it. But
you then initiated the separation and, when that
happened, there was to-ing and fro-ing that was
difficult.
[Summarising statements like this pave the way for
greater focus]
Janet: Yeah. ... I suppose that took about six months to a year
to resolve. ... [Pause] And then years passed, and that
was 2004 ... so years ago. And ... [pause] he
remarried, and he’s happily married now. He’s very
happy and we get on very well now. ... And I call her
my ex-wife, ‘cos his new wife. She’s great and I really
get on with her, and it’s fine.
Windy: Are they a good match for one another?
Janet: Oh God, yeah, completely. Yeah, very.
Windy: And were you a good match for one another?
Janet: No, not at all. ... So I spoke to him last night and he’s
going on a 1200-mile bike ride around Brittany with a
tent. That’s the kind of thing he would do, and that’s
198 Single-Session Therapy and Regret
my idea of hell. But his new wife would do that. So,
yeah, we never were compatible.
Windy: So what do you regret?
Janet: You know what I regret, I suppose back in the day I
imagined my life would turn out differently. I’ve had
a number of ... relationships. Well, what I’d like to be
now would be happily married, and I suppose that’s
never gonna happen. That’s never gonna happen now
at my age. I suppose that’s the regret, that I’m not
happily married.
Windy: When did you become 98, by the way?
[A humorous way of me indicating that it’s not too late
for her.]
Janet: Well, I certainly feel it. But ... I suppose you can’t
have that familiarity with somebody and that shared
experience of having children, and having children
grow up. Nobody can ever share your children like
your other parent, can they?
Windy: Well, that’s a separate issue. You might still meet
somebody and be happily married, but there’ll be the
absence of the shared experience of bringing up kids.
Janet: I suppose that for me is what happily married is: that
completely at ease ... shared. But, yeah, I guess you
can be happily married without.
Windy: So I’m still not sure what you regret.
Janet: I regret not still being with him because of what my
son and daughter have been deprived of.
Windy: And what have they been deprived of?
my idea of hell. But his new wife would do that. So,
yeah, we never were compatible.
Windy: So what do you regret?
Janet: You know what I regret, I suppose back in the day I
imagined my life would turn out differently. I’ve had
a number of ... relationships. Well, what I’d like to be
now would be happily married, and I suppose that’s
never gonna happen. That’s never gonna happen now
at my age. I suppose that’s the regret, that I’m not
happily married.
Windy: When did you become 98, by the way?
[A humorous way of me indicating that it’s not too late
for her.]
Janet: Well, I certainly feel it. But ... I suppose you can’t
have that familiarity with somebody and that shared
experience of having children, and having children
grow up. Nobody can ever share your children like
your other parent, can they?
Windy: Well, that’s a separate issue. You might still meet
somebody and be happily married, but there’ll be the
absence of the shared experience of bringing up kids.
Janet: I suppose that for me is what happily married is: that
completely at ease ... shared. But, yeah, I guess you
can be happily married without.
Windy: So I’m still not sure what you regret.
Janet: I regret not still being with him because of what my
son and daughter have been deprived of.
Windy: And what have they been deprived of?